GSCentral.org database of codes...

[Abystus]

Jesus Fucking Christ all the quotes above me... I think you both enjoy this back and forth argument, continually quoting the other and giving your view of what was said. I'm sure when I quit the hacking scene, or even if it dies all together this argument will still be going on.

I'm not touching you..

Roon says: I'm not touching you...

I'm not touching you..

Lazy Bastard says: I'm not touching you...

[BigBossman]

Truthfully, I'm not trying to get in the middle of the arguement here.

But I can go on to say that I like both websites. If I don't see codes posted on GameHacking.org, then I'll go to GSCentral.org to what has been posted. If there's something that I can use & that I'm impressed with, I'll post it to this site giving proper credit to the person that created / discovered that code. Both sites are very deatiled & I can say that I love what I call "nauseating detail". I can honestly say that I'm lucky enough to be involved with at least one of them.

[Lazy Bastard]

Rune: The only thing worth responding to in your last post was your comment about the implausibility of our staff contacting all the hackers of the BSFree DB's codes. I personally sent (literally) hundreds of emails, and at least two of the other admins sent them as well. We kept a running list of who had been contacted, and sent emails in clusters, using a single return address, and marking off those who responded (all of which approved, by the way). Many of the hackers were listed by email address, which made it easier. It was a huge endeavor. After sending messages out to everyone who was currently active in the scene, everyone with a listed email address in the DB, and everyone with a unique enough name and enough scattered data across the internet to track down easily, we migrated quite a few codes from BSFree to the GameHacking.org database. We've actually come up with a simpler method of migration, so we're awaiting rimsky82's awesome new DB to complete the task.

This response was actually more for the rest of the community than for you, as the question does warrant an answer. Thank you for reminding me to mention that.


Abystus: You may be right. iamstillhiro and ugetab were among the first to begin complaining about Rune grabbing their codes from GSHI, and adding them to GSC.org without credit. He later added credit when he was called on it, but several GSHI hackers (the two just mentioned, ShadowHacker, and others I don't recall) demanded their codes be removed completely from GSC.org. When Rune refused, they weren't happy, and began talking in various circles about the issue. Rune retaliated by accusing GSHI of stealing codes from GSC.org, which was humorously deflected by timestamps between the two sites, which were themselves backed up by Google caches, which could not have been tampered with. This was the point at which many GSC.org members noticed the discrepancies, and began distancing themselves. I believe this was the turning point in the mass exodus from GSC.org to KodeWerx and GSHI. However, during the time period of this 'war', the scene enjoyed a giant spike in the level of activity at both GSC.org and GSHI (and KodeWerx was quite active as well). I think it is for this reason that Rune likes these little 'scuffles'. And that's fine.


BigBossman: That's perfectly acceptable. The health and activity of the scene should be held higher than a pointless rivalry.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I am new to this whole scene and unintentionally started this conversation by asking a simple question about the BSFree code database without knowing of this whole controversy. But I'm curious, why did people begin to leave GSCentral in the first place? Like what could have originally happened for so many people to leave and cause this bitterness between the two sides?

[Lazy Bastard]

GSHI and GSC.org became rivals because of the code credit and permissions issue you see in this thread. During the ensuing fight, Rune began to lose credibility in the eyes of his own staff. Eventually, no one was chiming in on his behalf, and some of his members were even crossing the floor to GSHI. He ended up just posting nonsense and spam on the 3rd party forums that housed the primary debate between the two sites, I suppose in an effort to drown out the very damaging facts therein (I still have a copy of that discussion, which I should add to the wiki for posterity). On his forums, there was a disagreement over an unrelated issue, and out of nowhere (perhaps because of simple paranoia) he stripped his staff (including Parasyte and Viper187) of all power, and later shut down the forums entirely. This was apparently the last straw, and Parasyte created and officially moved over to Kodewerx. Most (all?) of GSC.org's skilled hackers went with him. Many of them also came to GSHI, and some came here exclusively.

[Lazy Bastard]

I will add, however, that abystus is quite a good hacker, and hence I cannot say that GSC.org currently has no good hackers.

[OldSchoolGamer]

So before this site (GSHI) and Kodewerx existed... all of you were working together, getting along at the same site at GSCentral. And then there were allegations of people stealing credit for codes that were being posted at your own/same site. So it wasn't that people were stealing codes/credit and posting those codes on other sites trying to potentially lure new members to join their site or to try to have/improve another website. That just doesn't make sense. So if this whole alleged stealing of codes/credit occured at the same site all of yous ran and were posted at the same site that all of yous ran. How wasn't this controversy squashed right away by just looking at who is the one who posted the codes first? And why would anyone want to steal from their own co-workers in which the end result is the code being posted on the same site regardless of who hacked it. Just for credit/bragging rights? But it is known that all of you know how to make codes and that all of you have made many codes. So what was so special/important about wanting to take credit for a few additional codes? Were the codes in question that were allegedly stolen, some kind of special/impossible codes? Were these magic codes? Did yous get these codes from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?

[Abystus]

I will add, however, that abystus is quite a good hacker, and hence I cannot say that GSC.org currently has no good hackers.

While I appreciate the complement (I really do), this subject grows tiresome after the thousand times we have heard it. What happened in the past is OVER (what happened to Ugetab is entirely a different subject so I'll let that one be). It's not that I'm not up for a good read and all, but when you see the same subject matter repeat it self over and over it just gets old.

Here's an idea, lets make a rule that pertains to talking about this touchy subject (You stole my database, You steal our codes, You don't give proper code credit, You sunk my battleship, etc...). If it's already been stated in the thread before and quoted (this part is important) it cannot be mentioned again in the same thread. I know we all come here to hack codes, get help, have a general discussion, etc but it's almost like arguing what religion is best or talking politics when these types of threads get started.

I know this is your site Lazy and know that I respect that when I speak my thoughts on this matter. I jump from GSC to GSHI and back daily checking each database of codes for things that have not been hacked to produce new codes that I post at each site. I have not sided completely with either because of the feud that has been going on for many years now. It's like the movie groundhog day but for real... We can do better than this.

-Edit-

As a side note. If what is being said is in response to a questions then by all means answer (and do so truthfully). It's when the debate about who's e-penis is bigger starts that the shit hits the fan and makes me wanna STOMP TURTLES.

[Lazy Bastard]

OldSchoolGamer: No, GSHI did not come from GSC.org (or .com for that matter). I founded GSHI in 1999. GSC.com (the original incarnation of GSC) was founded in 1998 by Jim Reinhart, and I don't recall when GSC.org was spun off by Rune and friends (I'm sure he'll be more than happy to expound on that). Actually, GSHI's original members came mostly from GSCCC, at the time the largest hacking community in the scene.

abystus: You're welcome. Yes, it is quite tiresome to argue the same points over and over, with no change in the discussion. If I do so, it is almost always in response to Rune bringing them up again, but I suppose that doesn't excuse me from responsibility. It's a good idea to create a new rule, but I don't want to officially enforce something that makes members feel muzzled, so I think it will be a loose rule, something to refer to when someone else brings up a tired point.

[Rune]

Well after reading all of that pro-GSHI P.R. spin, here's what really happened:

Back in 1998, Jim Reinhart started GSCentral. It was called GameShark Central. The very same afternoon that he created the website. I joined on as Jedi and offered to help him with the website. So, as I have said countless of times, there is only one GSCentral. Jim Reinhart created the idea and it was 99.9% fueled by others. Jim Reinhart disappeared after a week to three weeks tops, and I have been guiding GSCentral over at GSCentral.com and then GSCentral.org ever since, minus a brief 3-4 month period where I entrusted the site over to Macrox/Viper. During that time Viper updated the website and did a helluva job catching up with code submits. I believe Parasyte/Kong K. Rool was also gone during that period.

As for the 2005 split, people here love to believe I was "kicked out". Nothing could be further from the truth. The real truth is that Stinky613 would always manage the website's business aspect and I would handle every other area, such as code creation, affiliation, managing the forums. Crocc would handle any scripts that were needed. (Stinky613 joined sometime in 1998 after I did, and he was originally a moderator and not an administrator, so anyone saying that he owned GSCentral would be wrong. GSCentral was always run at first by Jim Reinhart and I.) However, there were lots of people trying to direct the website because Stinky613 was never around and Crocc was equally busy with high school or college. The absence of Stinky / Crocc and the appointed moderators on the boards made resolving any issues impossible. Without administrator access, which had been revoked because people disliked having an administrator step in, I was unable to resolve any issues. GSCentral.com had essentially became the madhouse that Kodewerx would become in less than two years. So, after spending so much time guiding the website, I decided that GSCentral.com was doomed with my limited access to both the boards and to the design and direction of the website. Parasyte had already jumped ship and was content to waste hours upon hours idling in mIRC, complaining about GSCentral.com's flaws yet he never attempted to resolve anything. Sure, I remember seeing him begin a single post but he never followed through and tried to appease the agitated staff members. The only way I could see to save the website was to shift all of my resources to a GSCentral run by the original staff members and not by those who had been falsely appointed (coincidentally, dlong being one of the staff who should have been appointed to moderate)

Before the end of .com, I was noticing codes appearing on GSHI that were not crediting the original code authors. I notified dlong and Parasyte and they started posting at GSHI and contacting them that many of those codes had already been hacked. GSHI did nothing. Nothing has happened since. Proper code credit does not exist here. As I have written above, if you want to support the original code database and the original code hackers, then support GSCentral and GSCentral.org. There is nothing left to say on this topic except that proper code credit has been intentionally removed or codes have been re-hacked ignoring what has been created before.

So that aspect of the story is covered. I wasn't kicked out, I wasn't fired, I chose to leave willingly with one last update, a nod to the Hitchhiker's Galaxy and to the thousand of hours of free labour that I had given. However, the problems rose anew when the former GSCentral.com staff shifted from the old .com address to .org. Instead of starting with a clean slate, most of the members brought old issues up and soon enough, tensions were high. People were being given temporary bans for abusing powers, such as banning new members, etc. Tensions got so high that it eventually resulted in the shutdown of the forums for the weekend and the temporary removal of administrator/moderator staff in order to prevent them from re-opening the boards before the weekend was over. The strong feelings of conceitedness and self-entitlement and discussions in mIRC actually made the situation worse and hence Kodewerx was born. Kodewerx was born not out of love for the scene and code hacking, but instead as a form of revenge. It is not surprising that the site is dead today.

[bungholio]

There is no possible way that you tracked down quite literally thousands of code hackers for their permission.

There were thousands of code hackers over 10 years? Never knew, it feels as if there is very few around to find. Doesn't seem like many console game hackers around anywhere ever, it's hard to believe there were over 2000 hackers. I doubt I'd find even 100 if I combined here, codetwink, CMP, psx-scene, and ps3hax.net. I guess I never notice since about all I have to mess around with is Sony console games.

[Lazy Bastard]

Well, if you take a look at http://GameHacking.org/?s=v2&m=h&pp=all

...you can find about 800 in our DB. There are still some in the BSFree DB that haven't been migrated, and there are definitely others out there across the scene.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I'm just going to say that since my membership, all codes posted in the forums have been eventually added to the database with proper credit.

[Lazy Bastard]

Back in 1998, Jim Reinhart started GSCentral. It was called GameShark Central. The very same afternoon that he created the website. I joined on as Jedi and offered to help him with the website. So, as I have said countless of times, there is only one GSCentral. Jim Reinhart created the idea and it was 99.9% fueled by others. Jim Reinhart disappeared after a week to three weeks tops, and I have been guiding GSCentral over at GSCentral.com and then GSCentral.org ever since, minus a brief 3-4 month period where I entrusted the site over to Macrox/Viper. During that time Viper updated the website and did a helluva job catching up with code submits. I believe Parasyte/Kong K. Rool was also gone during that period.

Just to clarify: you joined GSCentral.com the same day it was founded, and helped with the site from then on, running GSC from the point at which Jim Reinhart left (at most, three weeks in), until now (with a vacation of three months or so at some point). Is that correct?

The other items I will abstain from responding to, based on abystus' proposal of not entering into conversation loops from which there is no escape

Incidentally, I've changed your username to Rune.

[Lazy Bastard]

Interesting. I'd grown accustomed to hard-deleting spam posts, so I hastily deleted the thread just posted here by Cocaine Koala, an irrelevant, one-sentence review of the new X-Men movie...but looking at the user account, the email address is [email protected] (one of Rune's old email accounts). We require email address validation, so it was actually validated through that account. What's more, it was using the same IP address as Rune, 70.26.163.83. I suppose I'm not surprised.