New GG Code (Spy Hunter, NES)

[OldSchoolGamer]

The average code consumer will test the code and mark it off as being added in error.

Wrong. The FCE brances emulator users will "mark it off as being added in error". Other users, such as Nestopia and most importantly real hardware users will test the code and see that it works. There may even be other NES emulators in which the code works as well.

because a code note was not provided with the original code that states the code only functions in Nestopia. That is the main argument in our mini-debate

When did I ever say that a note should not be added? I do think a note should be added. You must have assumed otherwise.

That is the main argument in our mini-debate, not squirreling away from that topic to start discussing whether FCEUX is used more than FCEU. That's hardly relevant to this thread and Spy Hunter in general.

You stated that the code was not working and it kept rebooting your emulator. You informed what emulator you were using which is an outdated version of that emulator. When testing emulation and codes, it is always recommended that you use the most current version of an emulator. So I simply recommended that you update your emulator to the most current version. Apparently you took offense to it and rudely replied:

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are merely being facetious here and not sincerely dense because clearly Nestopia is only one of many Nintendo emulators available.

With that being said, I could have turned it around and said the opposite thing such as "I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are merely being facetious here and not sincerely dense because clearly FCE Ultra is only one of many Nintendo emulators available." But because I'm respectful, I didn't.

[Rune]

Wrong. The FCE brances emulator users will "mark it off as being added in error". Other users, such as Nestopia and most importantly real hardware users will test the code and see that it works. There may even be other NES emulators in which the code works as well.

Thanks goes out to Abystus for this reply:
Parasyte: "A challenge: Make it so we can use it on hardware. GameGenie is limited to 3 lines."

Abystus: "Does anyone even use hardware anymore (27 year old hardware at that) when emulators (which can accurately emulate the system) are so readily available? I'd say the majority of players use emulators due to the simplicity factor, and also that they most likely don't own the hardware anymore."
Source: http://gamehacking.org/vb/threads/44...-codes/page174

Who is testing these codes? You make it sound like everyone who plays videogames use emulators and specifically emulation to re-play 25 year old games. (Spy Hunter was made in 1987 for the NES.) The original NES has not been a mainstream gaming system for two decades. By the way, I can guarantee there are far more past/current hackers in the scene who are FCE Ultra users than Nestopia users. The debugging options for Nestopia are very poor.

My original Nintendo system from 1985 has been collecting dust since 1993-1994. I am sure not many people have theirs hooked up to test codes in 2012. :LOL:

When did I ever say that a note should not be added? I do think a note should be added. You must have assumed otherwise.

I have tested hundreds of PAR and Game Genie codes and never had a problem with modifying NES memory addresses with any version of FCE Ultra before. That in itself is an impressive feat for its compatibility. It is not necessary for an emulator to give perfect emulation of the actual hardware if it can handle over 99% of the thousands of codes available for the system!

You stated that the code was not working and it kept rebooting your emulator. You informed what emulator you were using which is an outdated version of that emulator. When testing emulation and codes, it is always recommended that you use the most current version of an emulator. So I simply recommended that you update your emulator to the most current version.

Which did not solve the problem of the code not working where all previous codes I have ever used worked flawlessly. You have no evidence that the latest emulator version will always be superior to the previous incarnation. Infact, I can back up my statements without stealing any of your arguments (as you have lamely attempted to do so below). Want proof? Just look at the Bleem! Dreamcast emulator for PC.

Apparently you took offense to it and rudely replied: With that being said, I could have turned it around and said the opposite thing such as "I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are merely being facetious here and not sincerely dense because clearly FCE Ultra is only one of many Nintendo emulators available." But because I'm respectful, I didn't.

FCE Ultra is the emulator of choice for years at Kodewerx and GSCentral and GSHI before it changed its name. That is 14 years. You would not know this because you do not hack codes and have only been around less than a year.

[Hybrid]

sorry but there is only one way to tell if a code works or does not work
hardware

yes Rune i have a 25 year old NES hooked up to test codes

[OldSchoolGamer]

I can guarantee there are far more past/current hackers in the scene who are FCE Ultra users than Nestopia users. The debugging options for Nestopia are very poor.

No sh*t. Once again, I never said Nestopia has better debugging options/hacking tools nor did I say more NES hackers use Nestopia. FCEUX is far superior than Nestopia when it comes to that. I've always said that in various past threads. I also already said that in this thread. I will repeat myself:

Originally Posted by OldSchoolGamer

I understand that FCEUX is the 'standard' emulator in the scene for hacking the NES. I never said it wasn't nor did I recommend to use Nestopia instead of it to hack.

lol, do you even read people's responses before starting to argue with them? You were arguing with me by agreeing with me by stating what I've already stated.

My original Nintendo system from 1985 has been collecting dust since 1993-1994. I am sure not many people have theirs hooked up to test codes in 2012. :LOL:

I do. I have my NES, SNES, Genesis, and Atari 2600 hooked up. I know other people that do too.

Which did not solve the problem of the code not working where all previous codes I have ever used worked flawlessly. You have no evidence that the latest emulator version will always be superior to the previous incarnation.

It doesn't matter if it solved the problem of the code not working. That wasn't the point nor did I ever say that it would have solved the problem. I was trying to explain to you that if you test a code with FCE Ultra and it doesn't work, then test it on Nestopia first before saying the code doesn't work. The standard practice is that before submitting a bug report, you test it on the most current version of the given emulator. Every emulator author and emulator website will tell you that.

You have no evidence that the latest emulator version will always be superior to the previous incarnation. Infact, I can back up my statements without stealing any of your arguments (as you have lamely attempted to do so below). Want proof? Just look at the Bleem! Dreamcast emulator for PC.

The latest emulator version of a given emulator will almost always be better unless it regresses with major bugs or negative changes. Where's my evidence you ask? Look at the page long list of bug fixes and improvements I already posted. It is common sense that "Emulator 3.0" will almost always be better than "Emulator 2.0". I stressed "almost" because of course there is going to be some exceptions. If you don't want to update your emulator... then don't.

FCE Ultra is the emulator of choice for years at Kodewerx and GSCentral and GSHI before it changed its name. That is 14 years. You would not know this because you do not hack codes and have only been around less than a year.

Yes I did happen to know that. Once again, it seems like you hear what you want to hear. I never said Nestopia was better at hacking than FCE Ultra. And I never said Nestopia was the preferred emulator of NES hackers.

All I said was two things... first... I suggested that...

If you test a code on FCE Ultra and it does not work, you should first test it on Nestopia before reporting that it does not work. Because there's a chance that the code will work for Nestopia and the real hardware but not FCE Ultra. Somehow, out of that suggestion, you went on to try to argue things that I did not say and you even started arguing about statements that you agreed with me on with things I already stated.

The second thing I said was that I suggested that you update your out-of-date emulator. If you prefer to stick with the older version for whatever reason, that is fine.

[Rune]

sorry but there is only one way to tell if a code works or does not work
hardware

yes Rune i have a 25 year old NES hooked up to test codes

Thank you for agreeing with what I have said in all my past threads. Emulation is not perfect but testing the codes on the actual system is the proper benchmark. With that said, it is not as convenient to test codes on the actual system as emulation can be much faster and can utilize more than 3 Game Genie codes at once!

You are one of the rare few videogame hackers who still use the actual system to test codes. The only hacker in the scene who uses the actual hardware to create /and/ test codes is Damin Mance and he sold or broke his system.

[Sly Hedgehog]

please delete this

[Rune]

No sh*t. Once again, I never said Nestopia has better debugging options/hacking tools nor did I say more NES hackers use Nestopia. FCEUX is far superior than Nestopia when it comes to that. I've always said that in various past threads. I also already said that in this thread. I will repeat myself:
lol, do you even read people's responses before starting to argue with them? You were arguing with me by agreeing with me by stating what I've already stated.

Running out of arguments it seems and you're cornered into agreeing with my above points. Thanks!

I do. I have my NES, SNES, Genesis, and Atari 2600 hooked up. I know other people that do too.

Very few people have the actual hardware setup. It is rather pointless when the emulators have reached the point where 99% of the codes will function similarly on the emulator as the actual hardware. So your tutoring on using Nestopia instead of FCE Ultra Debug is mere pettiness and a sign of an egocentric and 'holier than thou' psychological complex. Fear not, I have the academic background to make such an assessment.

"Other people", as in the 6 other Nintendo hackers in the whole scene? The scene would have died a long time ago without the actual emulators. It would not have survived by folks like yourself testing PAR/Game Genie codes on the actual system. :LOL!:

It doesn't matter if it solved the problem of the code not working. That wasn't the point nor did I ever say that it would have solved the problem. (trimmed for ego cuts)

Yes, it does infact matter. The crux of this debate is the fact that the code was not working and the author of the code did not throughly test the code in various emulators. If I had not replied to this author, who is an unfamiliar face in the scene and thus little credibility, then it would be easy to say the code did not work. One cannot and /must not/ assume that the code is universal and will work with all emulators!

No one cares about whether Nestopia is more accurate than FCE Ultra Debug. That is missing the big picture here by a wide margin. A code should ideally be universal and if it is not, the author should have tested the code adequately.

The latest emulator version of a given emulator will almost always be better unless it regresses with major bugs or negative changes. Where's my evidence you ask? Look at the page long list of bug fixes and improvements I already posted. It is common sense that "Emulator 3.0" will almost always be better than "Emulator 2.0". I stressed "almost" because of course there is going to be some exceptions. If you don't want to update your emulator... then don't.

As I proved earlier, there is nothing wrong with using an older emulator when it has been tested by an audience. Even updating the emulator did not fix the problem. Many of those "major bugs" are actually minor for the end user and more significant for the advanced minority.

Yes I did happen to know that. Once again, it seems like you hear what you want to hear. I never said Nestopia was better at hacking than FCE Ultra. And I never said Nestopia was the preferred emulator of NES hackers.

Your posts suggested as much. Seems like you are losing ground again and losing the argument.

All I said was two things... first... I suggested that...

If you test a code on FCE Ultra and it does not work, you should first test it on Nestopia before reporting that it does not work. Because there's a chance that the code will work for Nestopia and the real hardware but not FCE Ultra. Somehow, out of that suggestion, you went on to try to argue things that I did not say and you even started arguing about statements that you agreed with me on with things I already stated.

If the code does not work it is important to generate awareness that it is not functioning correctly. That is the first stage. Most advanced hackers test their codes throughly and make it clear what emulators or setup they used to create the codes to prevent any confusion from happening. This was not done in this thread.

In sum: I said Nestopia is shit as an emulator and not useful for regular usage. The cheat file system is crap. Using the hardware is great but only a small minority, such as the code hackers here, still have their systems plugged in /solely for testing codes/. I also wrote that the original Nintendo has not been a mainstream system for almost two decades. This means just because you, hybrid and maybe 5 other people have the system hooked up, is comparable to a speck of dust to the number of people who only game on their iPhone, Android, X-Box 360, Wii or PS3 systems. The game enhancer scene is very small compared to what it was in 1996 or 1998 -- I have seen more of its history than only 2 or 3 of the posters here. However, I had an insider`s look that very few can compare to and see that the scene is shrinking fast, with or without the usage of emulation.

The second thing I said was that I suggested that you update your out-of-date emulator. If you prefer to stick with the older version for whatever reason, that is fine.

I am not sure how you are missing the obvious here. Upgrading my FCE Ultra Debug did not fix the problem thereby downloading the new emulator was pointless. I made it clear enough that upgrading to newer versions is not always desired. Again, I refer back to my Gens point -- the older version of Gens had hacking options that no longer exist in later versions of the software.

Think before making outlandish statements. You`ll survive in life much longer if you do!

[rimsky82]

The method that Game Genie's use to patch the prg is so simple, I'm surprised it's even an issue in emulation. FCEU and it's branches had a major problem where in the event of enabling/disabling the code, it would forget the compare byte. This would of course cause glitches and crash games, which made the emulator inferior to others as far as Genie codes go. I believe that this bug was fixed sometime last October. The cheat window could still use a compare textbox, but if you add the genie code with the decoder, it should work fine. I'd fix the cheat window myself if I were more proficient with C++. The only other thing that an emulator could have wrong with it that would cause a genie code to not work, is if the mappers aren't configured correctly and the prg blocks are wrong. If that were the case, I don't think the game would even work.

I have my system hooked up, I have two genies and around 90-100 games. I don't use it to test very often, because I understand it should work fine as long as fceux remembers the compare byte.

For the hell of it, I built the latest fceux from their public svn. A lot of the most recent changes have been with the taseditor, sdl, and gtk.

[Hybrid]

Thank you for agreeing with what I have said in all my past threads. Emulation is not perfect but testing the codes on the actual system is the proper benchmark. With that said, it is not as convenient to test codes on the actual system as emulation can be much faster and can utilize more than 3 Game Genie codes at once!

You are one of the rare few videogame hackers who still use the actual system to test codes. The only hacker in the scene who uses the actual hardware to create /and/ test codes is Damin Mance and he sold or broke his system.

i still use hardware to create codes for my ps1 which i really have to get back into haven't done any codes for a while

[OldSchoolGamer]

A Game Genie code is more likely to work on Nestopia than FCE Ultra (even if it's just 1% more likely). That does not mean I think Nestopia is better at hacking than FCE Ultra. We also discussed the problem in FCE Ultra that Rimsky has pointed out in a previous thread with BeyondTheStatic. And that the newer version of FCEUX has fixed this problem. That is an example of why I suggested you update your emulator from FCE Ultra to FCEUX.

Running out of arguments it seems and you're cornered into agreeing with my above points. Thanks!

You are dellusional. You were arguing with me about things I never said. That's called being dellusional. And the things I did say, such as FCEUX is far superior at hacking than Nestopia, you pretended like I never said that... and you went on to argue with me by agreeing with me by stating what I've already stated. You continued to act like I was saying Nestopia was better with hacking, etc. I never said that. But you continued to argue and act as if I did. But after reading some of your past arguements with people... I realize that is how you function. So I didn't expect this arguement to be any different. I mean, after all, I'm arguing with a kid who has previously disrespected and insulted a deceased autism kid right in front of his grieving mother's face. They don't make them lower than that. Not to mention how on a daily basis you take other peoples' codes and post them on your website without their permission because you have no respect for others.

I am done with this arguement and will not be posting any further replies. Winning!!!

[Lazy Bastard]

That pretty much sums it up. One could write a guide to arguing with Rune, and it would continue to apply to every subsequent argument he is involved in, because the pattern doesn't change. Perhaps I should do so, as a comedic outlet, and general reference.

Rune: Yes, you have been around the scene for quite a while. A pity then, that you can't turn the benefit of this experience toward something truly constructive...

[Rune]

(blah blah blah!)
You are dellusional. You were arguing with me about things I never said. That's called being dellusional. And the things I did say, such as FCEUX is far superior at hacking than Nestopia, you pretended like I never said that... and you went on to argue with me by agreeing with me by stating what I've already stated. You continued to act like I was saying Nestopia was better with hacking, etc. I never said that. But you continued to argue and act as if I did. .... blah blah blah...Not to mention how on a daily basis you take other peoples' codes and post them on your website without their permission because you have no respect for others.

I believe the word you are looking for is 'delusional' but your dictionary must be different from mine. As I seem to recall, I did not agree with you, you went on to agree with me! :LOL!: This is where your favourite word delusional applies to yourself.

Do you really have a 'Masters' in Psychology or does that just look good on your profile page? I have respect for the codes in the same vein of Parasyte, who happens to believe that codes should be 'liberated'. I merely take that further and ensure that no one fudges the code credit due to their human frailities. Not naming any administrators here by name, though!

I am done with this arguement and will not be posting any further replies. Winning!!!

What you won exactly no one is quite sure! Congratulations!

[Rune]

That pretty much sums it up. One could write a guide to arguing with Rune, and it would continue to apply to every subsequent argument he is involved in, because the pattern doesn't change. Perhaps I should do so, as a comedic outlet, and general reference.

Rune: Yes, you have been around the scene for quite a while. A pity then, that you can't turn the benefit of this experience toward something truly constructive...

Look no further than GSCentral.org. The original code credit for hundreds of codes and no Parasyte, et al. Our runner-up motto after "Fight The System" was "Tell the Truth or Die!", believe it or not.

[Hybrid]

A Game Genie code is more likely to work on Nestopia than FCE Ultra (even if it's just 1% more likely). That does not mean I think Nestopia is better at hacking than FCE Ultra.

i'm not exactly sure thats really a good thing. its sad that emulation even though its a much more convenient thing has become the standard on which we judge whether or not a code works.
this is a reason why i would rather have hardware be the determining factor because emulation is just that its emulation an imitation of the program to run NES and as an imitation its not 100%
accurate . once i get the game i will test the code simple as that

[OldSchoolGamer]

i'm not exactly sure thats really a good thing. its sad that emulation even though its a much more convenient thing has become the standard on which we judge whether or not a code works.
this is a reason why i would rather have hardware be the determining factor because emulation is just that its emulation an imitation of the program to run NES and as an imitation its not 100%
accurate . once i get the game i will test the code simple as that

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by it's not a good thing? I didn't mean that it should be the judge of whether we consider it a working code or not. The statement was based on the notion that the code works on real hardware. So to be more clear... A Game Genie code that works on real hardware is more likely to work on Nestopia than FCE Ultra (even if it's just 1% more likely).

And yea me too, I've always preferred real hardware over emulation. If I own the cartridge, you will never find me playing that game on an emulator. But if I don't own the cartridge, then I gotta do what I gotta do to fulfill that itch to play it.

That's one of the reasons why I always prefer Game Genie codes instead of raw cheat codes. I think we had this conversation before when we both agreed that we felt that a raw cheat code, that's capable of being converted to a Game Genie code but hasn't yet, was sort of an unfinished code. Because raw cheat codes can only be utilized and enjoyed by people playing through emulation. Versus Game Genie codes that can be utilized and enjoyed by EVERYONE (people playing on real hardware AND emulation.) So if a raw cheat code is 3 lines or less, I always prefer to see them get converted to Game Genie (if possible). But if a cheat is more than 3 lines, than it doesn't matter so much if the code gets converted or not because gamers wouldn't beable to utilize the code on real hardware anyway because the Game Genie cartridge can only handle 3 lines of code... unless someone connects two Game Genie cartridges together.