Bang! Senate shoots down gun control

[Pyriel]

This really has nothing to do with whether guns should be restricted or outlawed in general, in the same way that drunk drivers don't make a good case for restricting or outlawing car ownership.

That's pretty much what I was saying. I tend pro-gun in spite of my own experiences. However, my first instincts and impressions are going to be based on that personal experience. In cases where I don't have any hard facts, or there isn't some logical way to reach a conclusion those are going to stick to some extent. That's just how people work. It can take a mountain of facts to overcome a bias, and only one to confirm it. On complicated issues like the economy, where hard facts are hard to come by, just patterns and different theories that seem to fit them, it's easy for two people to disagree while neither of them is misguided and neither is even right.

It seems like when you say "Democrats" and "Republicans", you frequently mean the politicians alone. I usually envision the entire party, including random people I know who align with those parties. I'll have to bear that in mind in future. You can't think of a single Democratic politician you approve of, but you don't vote along party lines? So there was one who you approved of at some point in the past, or was it just the occasional Independent or Libertarian? Ross Perot?

I'm not really going to touch the rest of it. You make it sound like there's a conspiracy, and then say you don't believe there is one. And that's pretty much how I'd sound, describing how I felt about Bush and his ilk.

[Lazy Bastard]

On complicated issues like the economy, where hard facts are hard to come by, just patterns and different theories that seem to fit them, it's easy for two people to disagree while neither of them is misguided and neither is even right.

Yeah...especially considering parts of our current economy are basically "magic". A complete farce can continue operating as if it were sound logically as long as the farce it rests upon itself remains intact. Who knows how long that will last in any given case.

It seems like when you say "Democrats" and "Republicans", you frequently mean the politicians alone. I usually envision the entire party, including random people I know who align with those parties. I'll have to bear that in mind in future.

Yes, that's usually my intention. Many citizens on both sides vote without a clear understanding of what they're voting for, and it's certainly incorrect to state that the majority of Democratic-voting citizens vote as such out of malice or even selfishness. In fact, it's my observation that most Democratic citizens have it in mind that their favored politicians will help more people than their Republican counterparts (unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case when all the cards have been played, but that's not germane to this specific question).

You can't think of a single Democratic politician you approve of, but you don't vote along party lines? So there was one who you approved of at some point in the past, or was it just the occasional Independent or Libertarian? Ross Perot?

There have been Democratic politicians in the past who I approved of more than their competing Republican counterparts (usually in local elections), and yes, Independents have acquired my vote several times (not in the presidential elections, however). I do also tend to agree with Libertarian viewpoints, but haven't voted for a self-styled Libertarian yet, for lack of opportunity in a given election (at least, lack of a belief that it would do more than swing votes away from the main Republican candidate and hand the election to the Democratic one).

I'm not really going to touch the rest of it. You make it sound like there's a conspiracy, and then say you don't believe there is one. And that's pretty much how I'd sound, describing how I felt about Bush and his ilk.

That's because I don't feel there's a concerted conspiracy of any sort occurring, but merely a tangled web of agendas that are deliberately disguised as other topics or swept under the rug entirely. As for Bush and friends (neocons and their brethren, as I mentioned above), I feel about the same way as you seem to.